“You know, maybe, the slogan,” says Lothar Matthaus, the former Bayern Munich captain. He is referring to the phrase, Mia san Mia, the club’s Bavarian motto since the 1980s. It translates as ‘We are who we are’ but everyone has their own interpretation.
Thomas Muller, another club legend, claims that it "stands for the complete will to succeed" and the "hardcore winning mentality" that has come to define modern Bayern. Matthaus offers a different spin on its meaning. "This means we are family," he says.
A Bayern player for 12 seasons over two spells, Matthaus romanticises that idea. "We were connected. It does not matter if it is a fan, if it is a cleaning lady, if it is a bus driver, if it is a greenkeeper. Everybody was close to each other." Somehow that spirit was lost.
"In the last two years, Bayern Munich was not a family. Bayern Munich was a one-man show, and that one-man show was Thomas Tuchel." It is fair to say that the ever outspoken Matthaus is not an admirer. "He is a good coach, but not for Bayern Munich," he adds.
Now, after Tuchel's team lost their grip on the Bundesliga title for the first time in over a decade, Bayern find themselves in the unusual position of challengers. But there is some optimism that his replacement Vincent Kompany can inspire much-needed unity.
Matthaus has been following the performances during Bayern's pre-season games, listening to the whispers from the club's summer tour of South Korea. Muller, it seems, has his smile back. "It is only small things that I see," says Matthaus. But those things can add up.
"The new coach is talking with the players, he is hugging the players, talking clearly with them about what he expects," he explains. "The atmosphere is much better and I think that atmosphere, as you saw it last year in Leverkusen, can make the difference."
While Tuchel moaned, Xabi Alonso mesmerised German football, guiding Bayer Leverkusen to their first Bundesliga title - and becoming the first team to do so without losing a game. Everyone was pulling in the same direction, while Bayern was engulfed by acrimony.
Matthaus points much of the blame at the now departed coach. Tuchel had wanted Joao Palhinha so much that he talked down the ability of Joshua Kimmich and Leon Goretzka to perform the role. Muller and Alphonso Davies were publicly questioned.
"It was not going down well in the dressing room because when you are Kimmich, when you are Goretzka, players who wrote history at Bayern Munich, who won titles, now Tuchel is coming and saying he is looking for a No 6? Saying I am not good enough?
"The atmosphere was not good because everyone was thinking, 'I am not good enough for Bayern Munich anymore but I won eight titles in the last eight years, I won the Champions League and I play for the Germany national team. What does he want?'
"This was a big problem because he did not give the players confidence. Nobody likes to listen to this all the year. Yes, you can say this one time, but after 10 months it is boring for the player. He lost a lot of players who were very important for Bayern Munich."
Matthaus extends his criticism beyond Tuchel, directing his ire at former chief executive Oliver Kahn, his old team-mate. It might seem strange at a club the size of Bayern, but that small-town mentality was always part of their strength, that culture of family.
"He did not know, maybe, when it was the birthday of the secretary. And these little things make the difference for Bayern Munich. This makes the atmosphere. And this atmosphere was not the atmosphere I knew from 40 years ago. This was different."
Asked if Kompany can change that, Matthaus claims that he already has. "In the first six weeks, he has made a really good atmosphere. Tuchel was far from the players. Kompany changed it. Because Kompany informed himself what Bayern Munich means."
He adds: "To be coach of Bayern Munich, you have to understand the mentality of the club." He talks of Udo Lattek being like a father to his players and expresses much the same sentiment about Ottmar Hitzfeld. Jupp Heynckes? "He was like a grandfather!"
Could Kompany really follow in those illustrious footsteps? Tuchel had won the Champions League in his previous job. Kompany's only success had come in the Championship. And even that experience had been followed by relegation from the Premier League.
A difficult season with Burnley might seem like unsatisfactory preparation for revitalising one of the giants of the European game, but Kompany has other assets. For one, his association with Pep Guardiola goes a long way among the Bayern hierarchy.
"Sure, it was a surprise," concedes Matthaus, acknowledging that Kompany was not on his shortlist. "But I know him from when he was playing for Hamburg. He knows the Bundesliga. He speaks the language." More than that, he is part of a wider trend in the game.
"Alonso had not won a title either." Borussia Dortmund have appointed Nuri Sahin and Julian Nagelsmann is now in charge of the German national team. Both are younger than Kompany. "The young generation is coming. They like to play attractive football."
That is essential at Bayern. "We expect not only the titles, not only the first place, we expect entertainment. We want to see a good game. We want to have an attractive football style. This is the Bayern Munich that we know over the last 40 to 50 years."
It is a reminder that while Matthaus' focus is on changing the mood at Bayern, Kompany will need that to translate to performances on the pitch. It will require coaxing much more from those disenfranchised players who so underperformed last time around.
Confidence restored, the hope is that the talent can reveal itself once more. Dayot Upamecano, for example. "He did not have security in his game. Maybe the new coach can give him this back." Kim Min-Jae? "A very good player in Naples." Serge Gnabry, too.
Some of the issues that Tuchel had complained about have been addressed. Palhinha, finally, has arrived to strengthen the midfield. Michael Olise brings additional quality out wide. And, of course, Bayern still boast the services of Europe's most prolific striker.
Harry Kane's move to Munich brought 36 Bundesliga goals in his debut season but that was outweighed by the disappointment at his ongoing wait for a first major trophy. At 31, having come up short with England yet again, he could be forgiven for feeling cursed.
Matthaus is sympathetic. "He was not really in the best condition. He was injured before the European Championship. I am sure he was a big ambassador worldwide for the Bundesliga. He scored a lot of goals. But in the end, he would like to win titles."
Kane would do well to better his huge haul last season. "I do not think he will score 36 goals again." But perhaps he will not need to. "He will be motivated this year with a new coach, with a new team, with a new spirit." Matthaus believes that could be enough.
"I have this feeling Bayern Munich will win the championship." If Kompany lifts the gloom, they can win. And if they can win, it lifts the gloom. "When you play for Bayern, you know what you have to do," laughs Matthaus. "You have to win. It is so easy." We will see.
Watch Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich live on Sky Sports Mix this Sunday; kick-off 2.30pm